Comments on: Simon Lovell Rants https://www.stonecoldmagicmagazine.com/roots-and-branches/simon-lovell-rants/ Killer Magic, Incredible Advice, Totally Free! Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:06:17 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: salmononius2 https://www.stonecoldmagicmagazine.com/roots-and-branches/simon-lovell-rants/#comment-242 Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:06:17 +0000 http://stonecoldmagic.com/news/?p=86#comment-242 Just one thing I forgot to mention in my comment above (yes I really did forget it, this isn’t just me trying to get an extra comment 😀 ). For those who believe that flourishes make the audience think that you’re an exceptionally good card handler and that’s how you make the card rise to the top, etc., you’re audience will think that as soon as you pick up the cards, unless you have a Lennart Green type character. This happened to me once, I was called up at a mentalism show I was at to shuffle the cards for a card memorizing routine (I was just a spectator at the show), and even though I just did a normal riffle shuffle, after the show, some people came to me and asked how I learned to shuffle the cards so well.

I know that’s probably hard to understand since I didn’t write it that clearly so I’ll try to summarize: What we as magicians consider ‘basic card handling’ (like shuffling the deck smoothly, dealing, etc.) is more than what the average spectator is able to do, thus elevating it to ‘expert card handling’ in their eyes.

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By: Jeff Stone https://www.stonecoldmagicmagazine.com/roots-and-branches/simon-lovell-rants/#comment-241 Thu, 30 Jul 2009 04:23:36 +0000 http://stonecoldmagic.com/news/?p=86#comment-241 In reply to OldZombie.

@OZ – I have no problems with contrary opinions. Read this blog post I wrote a while back: Agree To Disagree

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By: OldZombie https://www.stonecoldmagicmagazine.com/roots-and-branches/simon-lovell-rants/#comment-240 Wed, 29 Jul 2009 08:04:10 +0000 http://stonecoldmagic.com/news/?p=86#comment-240 Stirring up controversy is very popular these days, to a point it is good, it gets people talking and exchanging ideas, just like we are. If you are into XCM (I hate that abbreviated kind of thinking.. anyone remember Y2K?) Then go for it. I’m just feeling like a contraryian tonight. Its like the endless arguments on the Cafe; its not Mentalism, its Mental Magic… ugg… who cares whats its called? If you like it, do it.

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By: Jeff Stone https://www.stonecoldmagicmagazine.com/roots-and-branches/simon-lovell-rants/#comment-239 Wed, 29 Jul 2009 07:53:46 +0000 http://stonecoldmagic.com/news/?p=86#comment-239 @OZ – I agree. It’s not magic. But it is astonishment. That’s all I care about. Just because a it ain’t magic doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it (doesn’t mean you should do it either).

Remember the point of this issue was to have each person give meaning to the flourish. Where I take issue with Simon is he basically called you an idiot and in not so many words said that you suck if you do flourishes.

If you have that issue of RMM, watch it. You’ll see what I mean.

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By: OldZombie https://www.stonecoldmagicmagazine.com/roots-and-branches/simon-lovell-rants/#comment-238 Wed, 29 Jul 2009 07:37:07 +0000 http://stonecoldmagic.com/news/?p=86#comment-238 I didn’t say its not entertaining, it is. Are people impressed? Probably. Are the astonished? Maybe. I am astonished by the skill of the Harlem Globetrotters (also jugglers in my opinion) but it ain’t magic.

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By: Jeff Stone https://www.stonecoldmagicmagazine.com/roots-and-branches/simon-lovell-rants/#comment-237 Wed, 29 Jul 2009 07:19:22 +0000 http://stonecoldmagic.com/news/?p=86#comment-237 @OZ – I disagree with your comment:

“To just throw in a flourish for no reason is just showing off”

On two levels:

  1. One just on technical merit, that if it’s “showing off” then it’s not for “no reason.” It is for a reason. That reason is to “show off.”
  2. However, technical nit-picking aside, the real reason I disagree is that just throwing in flourishes can be very astonishing

I do most of my writing at a local Taco Time, and when I get writer’s block, I play with my cards:

  • Several different one-handed cuts/shuffles
  • Fancy false cut/packet juggling stuff
  • Danny Korem’s The Leaper
  • Some Paul Harris flip the cards moves
  • Ovette Master Move Pop out thing
  • Butter Fly Cut
  • Illogical Shuffle

And a ton more. I get so many people commenting about how amazing it is or how cool it looks. I’m truly astonished when I watch someone openly do a second deal, when they put the top card face up and “demo” a second deal. I love that. To me amazing stuff like that is no more or less showing off than any other magic trick. It’s all about how you present it.

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By: OldZombie https://www.stonecoldmagicmagazine.com/roots-and-branches/simon-lovell-rants/#comment-236 Wed, 29 Jul 2009 06:16:57 +0000 http://stonecoldmagic.com/news/?p=86#comment-236 I’m with Simon on this one, flourishes are juggling. But that is not a bad thing as long is it is how how connected to or part of the effect. To just throw in a flourish for no reason is just showing off. My list is very very short:
1. Bill Malones false cut flourish.
2. One handed cut.
That’s it. Its just not my thing and not worth my time to learn and master. Its not that I’m lazy, I spend WAY too much time on cards, but prefer to stick with sleights. Funny when you think about the time to learn sleights that no one will see (if you do them right that is).

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By: Jeff Stone https://www.stonecoldmagicmagazine.com/roots-and-branches/simon-lovell-rants/#comment-235 Wed, 29 Jul 2009 05:32:57 +0000 http://stonecoldmagic.com/news/?p=86#comment-235 In reply to salmononius2.

@Sal – Amen brother. I don’t know what else to add to that, so I’ll shut up . . .

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By: salmononius2 https://www.stonecoldmagicmagazine.com/roots-and-branches/simon-lovell-rants/#comment-234 Tue, 28 Jul 2009 02:11:16 +0000 http://stonecoldmagic.com/news/?p=86#comment-234 I couldn’t agree with you more. I use flourishes all the time, and I believe they could be used to compliment the magic, when used correctly. One way that I do flourishes is in the middle of Do As I DO, after all the usual repetitive phases, I tell them to do a ‘double sibyl rotation cut’, which always gets a laugh since we all know they can’t do it (although I do this in a humorous way, not in a ‘I can do stuff that you can’t and am being a jerk about it’ sort of way).

However, it’s only effective when used correctly. I think someone summed it up best in another magic forum I frequent: A flourish is like a guitar solo in a rock concert. It’s good for a few minutes, but you can’t have a whole show of just guitar solos. Similarly, a guitar solo would look out of place during Mozart’s 12th symphony (those performances that would look out of place if flourishes were added in, Lennart Green comes to mind 😀 ).

A lot of people also say that flourishes take away the belief from your spectator’s that you can do ‘real magic’, but honestly, how many people really believe in that? Most people know that there’s some sort of sleight of hand trickery involved, as long as it’s entertaining, they don’t care.

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By: Jeff Stone https://www.stonecoldmagicmagazine.com/roots-and-branches/simon-lovell-rants/#comment-233 Fri, 17 Jul 2009 07:41:58 +0000 http://stonecoldmagic.com/news/?p=86#comment-233 Of course, he IS qualified in the sense that everyone is entitled to an opinion. I’ve tried to listen to him with an open mind, and I do often agree with him.

He had one particular rant about people who won’t read magic books. While I agreed with the premise, I felt his rant was a bit off-base.

He often does annoy me in that column, but remember this:
http://www.stonecoldmagic.com/blog/agree-to-disagree/

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